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Discussion: [Manga Studio EX] How to change the page size?

  1. #1
    Vertex Avatar de Elcet
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    February 2008
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    Paris
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    [Manga Studio EX] How to change the page size?

    I would like to know if and how it would be possible to change after its creation the paper page format in a comic page under Manga Studio 3.0 Pro EX. Actually, I IGNORE THE PAPER SIZE that the publisher could give for my project of comic album. I can draw in a given useful page size, but there is a white zone around the panels that make up the page, and this differs according to the publisher and the collection in which an album is published. If I consider that some panels are drawn up to the page border, these panels should continue to be illustrated for a given dimension (ca. 1/4 inch) outside the paper format to cope with an unprecise cropping. I can start drawing with some paper size, but probably will have to change afterwards. No problem in Photoshop (go to Canvas size), but how to do the same in MS? The MS manual says nothing about it, the only solution that I have found would be either to start from a huge oversized format or to copy the all existing layers from an older comic page into a blank new one in the right format, but this may prove an unusually complex solution. Does a simpler one exists?

  2. #2
    Booh! Avatar de Piem
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    May 2003
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    I wonder if you can't resize all selected layers of a SAME TYPE in a single opération (Edit/move and transform/resize)..but it could be a pain for raster layers..unless they are converted to vector (?).


    I guess that you may want to do it for the whole book (?)
    Select all the pages, then change the page format guide if it's just a matter of format.

    EDIT : arrg forget me. It seems that the Finish size can't be changed or oversized.
    Dernière modification par Piem ; 04/02/2008 à 15h05.

  3. #3
    Vertex Avatar de Elcet
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    February 2008
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    Dear Piem,
    I doubt that this function could be used for that. My problem is to enlarge paper dimensions. The Edit > Move and transform menu serves to resize an individual object, either in pixels or in vectors, either a single object or several. And this apparently implies that, before, you have selected with the appropriate tool, the Lasso or another one. This also is crazy, because normally one ought to be able to select a vector path simply by clicking on it, just as one does in Illustrator. And apparently here one cannot select this way vector objects in Manga Studio 3.0 Pro EX. Anyway, I thank you very much for your kind and quick answer and hope that many comic artists could join us to share experiences about this a bit crazy but excellent application.

  4. #4
    Booh! Avatar de Piem
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    May 2003
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    Citation Envoyé par Elcet
    And this apparently implies that, before, you have selected with the appropriate tool, the Lasso or another one.
    Why don't just you clic on the layer name..in the layer palette ?

    Anyway, I agree, it's not the correct answer you are waiting for.

  5. #5
    Vertex Avatar de Elcet
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    February 2008
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    True, dear Piem, when you select nothing in the Layer, you rescale all the objects which are in the active Layer. The problem is elsewhere, and there is no proper solution. I guess that this happens for two reasons. First, one has the impression that this software although it has real qualities, has not, by far, the interface quality that Photoshop (or Illustrator) have. It's a kind of crude replica of Photoshop, in which Celsys, the original manufacturer, tried to turn around the hundreds of patents developped by Thomas Knoll and his team, but with such improvements in the direction of comic artists that it is nevertheless the sole serious modern comic inking solution currently available. Second reason, it has been designed for Japanese mangakas only (if we European, Belgian-style comic-realistic artists use it, it is great, but it was NOT made for us), and I guess that mangakas work only when they have a signed contract by a publisher, which implies a fixed paper size, and unfortunately this is not our situation. We have to prepare test pages before that a publisher signs.

    Pending the answer of other users (and I am grateful to yours), I consider that the way to follow might be to begin with the page dimensions that are supposed to be sufficiently big. Drawing is better in the most vector mode that is possible (I draw everything in Vector mode except plain black areas, and even I try to close them entirely with vector curves). If the future of the project says that the final page dimensions are false, create a complete new blank page, and copy the entire existing one into the new file, Layer per Layer. I made tests: if you copy vector elements into a New Layer, even in a different file, this new one keeps the vector character of the original elements, i.e. they stay dynamically modifiable. If you merge two Vector Layers, the resulting Layer is a Vector one, and that is the key point!

  6. #6
    Always learning new stuff Avatar de Thomas
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    Elcet: you have the same section in french if you want... Piem and yourself are french
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  7. #7
    Vertex Avatar de Elcet
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    Hi Thomas, I went there because I guessed that, perhaps, some English-speaking comic artist could participate to the discussion. I supposed that if I was in the French section only French people will visit and participate! But I have other questions too… I will continue with other subjects regarding Manga Studio in few days. This discussion, anyway, is very instructive!

  8. #8
    Polygon killer Avatar de graphinc
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    July 2003
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    Hello Elcet.

    It's sad that Manga studio don't offer a "canvas resize" like feature. Of course, many people use it and know what will be the final format but if you don't have a publisher yet, you'll have to spend some time. When I work with Manga studio and I don't use vector features, I work with a big page and a 1200 dpi resolution, so I'm able to resize the page even in a bigger format (decreasing the resolution ). All you have to do is export (but of course you loose the vector layers taht are converted to pixels).
    As Manga Studio don't work fine with Vista, I can't use it for now but it's really sad as it's the best program I know (even Painter is not as good for inking)
    Cédric TROJANI , Graphiste et illustrateur indépendant
    http://www.cedrictrojani.fr

  9. #9
    Vertex Avatar de Elcet
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    February 2008
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    Paris
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    Dear Cedric,

    To choice between pixel and vector drawing mode is a matter of personal taste and feeling. I must recognize that I immediately jumped to vector because I have been since a long time aficionado of Illustrator. However, I consider that, even they are not very well built, the vector functions are of a fantastic interest for who is looking for very regular, soft and "pure"-looking curves, because in that field the pro version (EX) has great possibilities of edition: softening the irregular strokes, thickening, thinning, altering the path by tilting on one end, both ends etc… which all are unavailable in pixel mode: you simply have to wipe a bad brush stroke. Because I am telling the story of a kind, sweet-hearted and sexy woman (even if she is sometimes very agressive and very proud), soft curves are a benefit. Vector mode is also an help to draw technical objects that need regular curves that before I draw with a soft lead-plastic ruler or curved plastic guides. I add that I use a very crude screen-tablet, a Wacom LS-400, which is far from the precision of the current Cintiq.

    Unfortunately, Celsys seems not to have discovered that one should be able to draw fills in vector mode (if they are intelligently conceived by the software programmer, that I am not), therefore in MS 3.0 EX with vectors you can only draw lines, thin or thick but lines! So, unlike Piem commented yesterday, I noticed is that if you convert a raster Layer into Vectors, the fills are destroyed (!) and transformed into paths (the manual confirms this stupid feature)!

    Having done this sad experiment, I decided to ENCLOSE every black surface (such as the hair of my heroin who is Asiatic) completely by vector lines, either thin or thick. If I must leave these opened (such as to draw eyebrows), the surface that I draw is in fact a thick vector stroke. This way I should not be bothered if there is some pixellation of the black surfaces, anyway these surfaces are reduced to very simple ones because they are immediately selected with the Magic Wand tool. If some problem happens, I should be able to replace the surface into Photoshop with the equivalent tool.

    A VERY IMPORTANT NOTE FOR MAC USERS: IF YOU PLAN TO JUMP TO MAC OS 10.5, NEVER DO IT EXCEPT IF YOU USE ONLY MANGA STUDIO DEBUT!!! STAY IN MAC OS 10.4.11 (MS works on 10.4.11 correctly) OR OLDER SYSTEMS BECAUSE MANGA STUDIO 3.0 EX DOES NOT WORKS AT ALL UNDER THE SYSTEM 1.5!!! ALTERNATIVELY BUY AN OLD MAC SUCH AS AN AFFORDABLE POWERFUL G4 TO OPERATE MANGA STUDIO EX.

    Cedric says also that he has problems with Vista… Stay on Windows XP or buy a good old PC running on XP, this is cheap today!

    Thanks a lot for friends Cedric and Piem to participate to this useful discussion.

    Edouard

  10. #10
    Cube Avatar de cartoonMike
    Date d'inscription
    May 2005
    Localisation
    Walnut Creek Ca USA
    Messages
    69
    Here's some information, hope this helps somebody...

    First off, Smith-Micro (the current sellers of Manga Studio in the west) has released an update for EX that allows its use in Mac OS X 10.5! I've updated a few weeks ago and it seems to be really stable. Still not an Universal Binary, but it doesn't lag on my Intel Mac. There still doesn't seem to be an update for Vista, yet.

    While there isn't an "easy" way to make a single page or story pages larger, there is an workaround that I discovered when I had to up my resolution and page size. First off, Make sure that the "new" size is exactly porportional to the "old" size. If the old paper size is 8.5 by 11 inches at 300dpi, then make sure that the new size is 8.5 by 11 and set the resoulution at 600dpi. Once I created the new story with the correct size and resolution, I opened both the Old and New file.

    This is the tedious part, copy and paste from the old file to the new file. However, since the size (not the resolution) is the same, the pasted items will be pasted in the same (relative) place as they were in the old file.

    You can group layers (vector, raster, text) as long as they aren't Panel Layers, then make the group active (it should have an highlight color, if not, click on the layer) then do a command for copy (what ever it is for your Operating System) and go to the page in the New story file and do a command for Paste. This pastes the group in the new page, now do a command for Ungroup and presto! the layers of text, artwork, etc are all there!

  11. #11
    Vertex Avatar de Elcet
    Date d'inscription
    February 2008
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    Paris
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    14
    That's excellent cartoonMike! I had found a not so good solution by pasting individual Layers from an old document into a new one of an higher size, and I noticed that vector Layers retain their vectorial nature, but this is more efficient. The bad point is that it seems that, if you MUST retain a wide areas around the drawn surface of the page, you have to restrict the page size to some A4 size if you are in 1200dpi resolution, because I guess that MS has been conceived to do small pocket-size comics, not A4 ones. That is a bad point especially if you have twin-pages to draw (I mean attached left and right pages that are sharing some panels), therefore you need an original drawing size which is huge. However, if you draw in vector, it would be better than raster, but here also you are limited by the export capabilities of MS. It would be great that Celsys, SmithMicro and others involved in the manufacture of MS understand that MS could also be used by non-manga comic illustrators such as Belgian-style ones.

    Also I thank you a lot for informing us that now an update has been done to support Mac OS 10.5 operating system.

    If somebody has info about the adaptation of Comic Studio 4 into Manga Studio 4 Pro EX, I am very interested! I hope that the new version will have less limitations than the current Manga Studio 3 Pro EX, but I am skeptical about that.

  12. #12
    Vertex Avatar de Kromdor
    Date d'inscription
    May 2008
    Localisation
    London
    Messages
    15
    Hi!
    Just to let you know guys that Smith Micro released an update of Manga Studio for those who wants to update their Mac to leopard.

    You can download it here : http://my.smithmicro.com/mac/manga/updates.html

    Edit : Oops, sorry CartoonMike already talked about this !! :D

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