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manleystanley
12/10/2006, 13h40
Well I finally got the answers I wanted, not the actual answers I wanted, but the questions I have had sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex have been answered.
And no, Daz will not be fixing Carrara 5 or Hex 2. You can stop waiting for them now. It wont be happening. If you want fixes to the bugs in C5 you'll have to buy C6, if you want Hex2 to work as advertised you have to buy H3. And if there are any bugs in them, well you'll just have to wait for the next version for them to get fixed.
So, in other words, Daz is doing exactaly what I have been saying they were going to do right along; and was assured by several Daz associates was not the case. Yes Daz will be charging us for fixes/updates by just not releasing any. All fixes and updates that could be released now, will be part; and probebly the biggest part, of the next versions of Carrara and Hex.
I would like to thank Daz and it's employies for lieing to us, jerking us around, and playing this dambed smoke and mirrors game sence they bought Carrara and Hex. The truth is out, and we got screwed.
Well I'm done with Daz, and wont be spending another dime there. I will be letting my Pclub membership run out, and am looking for replacements for C5 and H2.
I'm sorry, but C5pro is a rather large investment for poor folk like my self. I can ill aford to buy the new version just to get bug fixes.

I know the day and age of this is long gone, but I'll give it a try anyway. Eoviaites unite, I'm asking all of us to boycott Daz till these issues are resolved. Let's not just sit around and allow Daz to screw us out of updates/fixes to these programs that we have been assured we would get sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex.
And to Daz flunkies, please, I have been lied to sence Daz bought C5 and H2. I was assured that we would not be paying for fixes, well look, now we are. So please do not waist my time with any more smoke and mirrors on this subject. There is no justification for this, so don't even try.

LoneGunman
12/10/2006, 16h16
I told ya, didn't I ??? :p

And, how exactly would you boycott DAZ ?

I already did, only upgrading if it's gonna have hair and cloth simulation (i'm aware that it will not be rendering engine fixes, that is for version 7>).

Nah, I think that all the content importing people are gonna wet themselfs when DAZ announces that import for ALL their stuff is working perfectly. They will suck it up and upgrade, so your voice will not count against that, ever. :hi:

Azeiku
12/10/2006, 17h01
I'm thinking Modo looks great! But then again.. if they do another 1.99 release of Hex3 I might have to give them my money again. Other than that. If it's well over $199. I'm going to Luxology for sure. I too am sick of them jerking around and most of their users seem to need clothing for their V3 models. That's crap.

Azeiku

jbshorty
12/10/2006, 17h11
Stanley, how'd you get so jaded lol ?... Seriously, the lost sales of a few hundred (maybe several thousand) non-content users is a minor threat when compared to the potential upgrade sales towards content users. The only people who can hurt DAZ is DAZ... Anyway, buying software is no different than buying a car. You may have the full warranty, but you're still ass-out if that company goes out of business or decides not to produce replacement parts!!! :)

Couerl
12/10/2006, 18h03
Why anyone would expect "bug" fixes in C5 at this stage of the game is beyond me, I've never read anywhere that C5 was going to get any more patches and even Charles asked a few times "last call for any bugs" about 6 months ago. It's overall less buggy than previous versions of Carrara and if C6is on schedule, that could be released anywhere from Dec 06 to April 07.

I did see H2 in the last chat getting a pardon and Bob said the next patch would be free. (Maybe that's why he doesn't work there anymore) :|

Anyway, to me it is of little consequence, I still have plenty to do and in the long run I'll continue to use forward looking software like Hexagon to model with. I havn't had any errors, crashes or bugs in months and months and I think it's because I've learned all the nuances it has and know how to keep them from springing up. It's all about methodology and common sense modeling. I'd rather model in a program that takes risks, has more features and does things other programs cannot do than model in something far less capable and works perfectly every single time and is more forgiving to the novice user.

Sketchy
12/10/2006, 18h50
:shiny: Like I've stated in some forgettable thread, I'm not a fan of zbrush-like modeling. I upgraded to Hex2, but those features didn't work well on my machine. I'm still using 1.21 for serious subd modeling work. I really don't care much about H2 bug fixes. Though I'd be glad to have them for free. I'm only doing still images, anyway. C5 and Hex1.21 are enough at the moment.

I don't expect C6 to be released anytime soon, but I expect it to be big when it's released. I may no longer need Hexagon, Blender or any of the other tools littering my pc for that matter.:shiny: I'd be happy when that happens. And that's the end of it. No need to consider buying any app.

steama
13/10/2006, 19h16
What really matters is that one is satisfied with DAZ or not.

If not satisfied there are many great alternatives out there for you.

No need to boycott DAZ. Their customers that like them will stick around and those that are feed up will leave. Simple. :)

The main thing is to enjoy what you are doing and remember that things will always change no matter what direction you take. Be ready to adjust and support your efforts.

Happy 3ding,
Stan

laughingnome
13/10/2006, 21h02
ok guys,
i asked at Daz and so far they are saying that upgrades to version2 are free.

stu

steama
13/10/2006, 21h21
That is great if there is going to be an update 'before' a Hexagon 3 release. I hope so. That would be nice.:hi:

That said I think Hexagon is an amazing tool. I will upgrade to Hexagon 3 whether DAZ updates 2 or not provided it functions as promoted by then. I will wait until everyone else plays around with Hex 3 and see if it all works first.:w00t:

Stan

jbshorty
13/10/2006, 22h01
stu, i think Ringo said they had "no plans to not release" an update before H3 :dry:. that's not exactly a guarantee of a 2.2 update. We all know that a company's best intentions may be influenced by their bottom line.

steama, everybody says that now. but what's everybody gonna do when DAZ starts offering sweet discounts on pre-orders of H3? I bet there's still a LOT of people who will jump on it, even though we all witnessed how risky it is to purchase anything before public release...

steama
13/10/2006, 23h15
steama, everybody says that now. but what's everybody gonna do when DAZ starts offering sweet discounts on pre-orders of H3? I bet there's still a LOT of people who will jump on it, even though we all witnessed how risky it is to purchase anything before public release...
I have heard that DAZ does not do pre-orders though Eovia did. I can promise I will not pre-order unless it is $2 bucks.lol How much can a Hexagon 3 upgrade cost anyway (I bet it is under $100)?

Stan

manleystanley
14/10/2006, 03h50
Except for one big bug; well it bugs me big time, I love Carrara 5, and would probebly get an upgrade to 6, but not if 5 dosen't get fixed. Basicly if they don't fix 5 why would I beleave they would fix any bugs in 6.
And for modeling Hex2 is hard to beat. But I wanted to do uvpainting, and displacements with it too. So I'm still texturing in C5. Not a bad thing as it's the only program I can do uvmapping with; I mean the only one I have figured out how to.
RingoM has taken back what he had said, and explained he had said it out of turm. Some how I get the fealing he got a PM from the powers that be. But I'm not going to give up. I'm fed up with Daz's smoke and mirrors, I'm sick of vague answers, so I intend to stay at this; on the Daz forum, till I get some concrete answers.
I really can't say too much bad about Daz. Yes they are very market orinented, but that is to be expected. And they do give some real good insentives and deals to keep customers active. But I am not a mushroom :[

Nichod
14/10/2006, 17h56
Well I finally got the answers I wanted, not the actual answers I wanted, but the questions I have had sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex have been answered.
And no, Daz will not be fixing Carrara 5 or Hex 2. You can stop waiting for them now. It wont be happening. If you want fixes to the bugs in C5 you'll have to buy C6, if you want Hex2 to work as advertised you have to buy H3. And if there are any bugs in them, well you'll just have to wait for the next version for them to get fixed.
So, in other words, Daz is doing exactaly what I have been saying they were going to do right along; and was assured by several Daz associates was not the case. Yes Daz will be charging us for fixes/updates by just not releasing any. All fixes and updates that could be released now, will be part; and probebly the biggest part, of the next versions of Carrara and Hex.
I would like to thank Daz and it's employies for lieing to us, jerking us around, and playing this dambed smoke and mirrors game sence they bought Carrara and Hex. The truth is out, and we got screwed.
Well I'm done with Daz, and wont be spending another dime there. I will be letting my Pclub membership run out, and am looking for replacements for C5 and H2.
I'm sorry, but C5pro is a rather large investment for poor folk like my self. I can ill aford to buy the new version just to get bug fixes.

I know the day and age of this is long gone, but I'll give it a try anyway. Eoviaites unite, I'm asking all of us to boycott Daz till these issues are resolved. Let's not just sit around and allow Daz to screw us out of updates/fixes to these programs that we have been assured we would get sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex.
And to Daz flunkies, please, I have been lied to sence Daz bought C5 and H2. I was assured that we would not be paying for fixes, well look, now we are. So please do not waist my time with any more smoke and mirrors on this subject. There is no justification for this, so don't even try.

And where are you getting your info? I don't expect a Carrara update as it is quite stable. I'm not sure what bugs are preventing you from using it, but I haven't come across any show stoppers.

As far as Hexagon is concerned, I don't think we'll see a patch or update soon, but I would expect that we will see a patch before version 3. And this has been stated by many at Daz. One such example is in the chat session they had.

Unless you are directly affiliated with Daz I don't see how you can have any reliable info on what we can expect. And speculation never leads to anything good.

Piem
14/10/2006, 18h13
Dito.. I haven't seen any critical bugs in Carrara5 ...since a long time in fact .

The only bad thing I got could be the "auto-update" preview with displacement and SSS, but since I have disabled this default setting..All is ok..I know some people who had memory bugs during the render, this I have not, even with gigs of bitmaps ..

Ok, now I was talking about stills.

E-Z
17/10/2006, 10h42
will Hexagon 3 be just a patch or a upgrade?
they need to stay away from AO because its really not that important when dealing with just a polymodler tool.

i dont know what more they can add for polymodling because they have alot all ready
the only thing i see is maybe some new shaders and stuuf

manleystanley
17/10/2006, 13h22
Nichod, RingoM; the Daz leason for Carrara and Hex said there would be no updates for Carrara5. He then deffended Daz by saying Eovia never did any updates after .1, with that logic there would be no updates to Hex2 ether. As I said he later retracted the statement.
The bug with C5 is well known by thoughs that build poser sceans in C5. You can't morph a figure then use an imported pose, it 0's all morphs.
No one has official said there would be updates. The possabilety has been vaguely alluded to, but not anything concrete. I just seems that if there was going to be updates it wouldn't be so difficult to get a conformation from Daz.

steama
17/10/2006, 20h17
The bug with C5 is well known by thoughs that build poser sceans in C5. You can't morph a figure then use an imported pose, it 0's all morphs.
:hi: Well you can forget about future Carrara versions working with future Poser versions unless efrontier does not change much from Poser 6 to Poser 7.

DAZ has not had a recent Poser SDK (my guess) from efrontier (maybe never)...look at DAZ|Studio. DAZ and efrontier are competitors on almost every front. DAZ|Studio vs Poser, DAZ Carrara vs Shade, DAZ content vs efrontier content, DAZ Hexagon vs The original Hexagon dev team and future Amapi and DAZ Bryce vs Vue (efrontier's pal).

The Carrara/Poser marriage is over, done, dead and buried. Carrara future will only work with DAZ models and software...so might as well forget about Carrara and Poser working together from here on out.

If you want to use Poser with other 3d applications your best bet will be Shade or Vue.

IMHO,
Stan

And very much I doubt you will see any more updates for Carrara or Hexagon until the next major release of these products. Also IMHO.

Pete Exxtreme
17/10/2006, 20h40
..to complete what Steama said, C4D has has also a third party plug-in for Poser ....(http://www.e-frontier.com/go/bodystudioc4d) :hi: (not for free as usual)

manleystanley
18/10/2006, 00h50
What I have is what I have. I can't ford to jump ship. I have Poser 5, and C5 will load P6 stuff. But I have a fealing e-F and Daz are about to have a rude awakening. Is anyone keeping up with Make human?:happy:

As far as C5 using P7 stuff, I have a huge library of P4-P6 stuff. More then I'll ever use. So I'm not too worried. And I only need the Poser figures/clothes. I make most everything else myself; including new skins for the figures, well C5 shaders stacked with G2.5 textures. :p

E-Z
18/10/2006, 11h47
Daz better have a Demo of Hexagon 3
because by seeing people complaining previously about bugs
i dought they would buy it unless they tryed it first.

Eovia knew about the bugs thats why they sold it.

jbshorty
18/10/2006, 13h54
Daz better have a Demo of Hexagon 3
because by seeing people complaining previously about bugs
i dought they would buy it unless they tryed it first.

you'd be surprised. as they say, there's a sucker born every minute...

Nate Owens
18/10/2006, 19h26
...i dought they would buy it unless they tryed it first... In a world run by bean-counters, the bottom line is what promotes sales and buy-outs. Eovia probably had good books and sold for cheap. The bean-counters don't care whether it works or not... it's the "sucker" factor that makes the financial world go round.

As far as bugs go... well I keep doing what I can do with them both, which for the price category seems to be quite a bit compared to other software.
I really think that Hexagon was a home run hit, but the team left the field and quit the game with the runner on third. It is #@#% disgusting what happened to that application - a good horsewhipping comes to mind:[ .

Patrick210
18/10/2006, 19h40
It seems like everyone is throwing in the towel on Hexagon. Go to the DAZ Bugtracker and look at Hexagon 2. There are about 12 pages of bugs, feature requests, and suggestions. Some are user error, a lot are real bugs, some are other things. The total is about 360, and 110 are are now listed as resolved. I know it's not as fast as the original team, but it seems like they are making progress. The last chat stated that there would be a patch for Hex 2 and in the past, patches have always been free. I wouldn't give up just yet.

steama
18/10/2006, 20h47
No reason to give-up on Hex. It has great potential. Some people are just unsatisfied with the current version and the fact so much does not work as promoted. I think that if DAZ ever gets it up to speed Hex will be hard to beat.:hi:

E-Z
18/10/2006, 20h53
the time it takes Daz to fixes there bugs
they could of all ready made hex 3.

i hope hex 3 upgrade doesn't cost more then what i payed from the full version hex 2
$ dollar ninety nine.

maybe the hex 3 upgrade will cost around 40 cents lol



I really think that Hexagon was a home run hit, but the team left the field and quit the game with the runner on third. It is #@#% disgusting what happened to that application - a good horsewhipping comes to mind:[ .

i agree 100% percent.

jbshorty
18/10/2006, 22h45
...maybe the hex 3 upgrade will cost around 40 cents lol...

DAZ will have to recoop their investment on the new Hex team. I predict a sell price between $175-$250 with upgrade of $100. That's fair market price based on the competition (and still cheaper than Eovia's price). But if you really don't think Hex is worth more than $.40 then feel free to buy Modo for $895. And you'll realize it has its fair share of bugs too...

Couerl
20/10/2006, 07h26
I think more and more new users are loving Hex and intermediate users are learning more how to avoid traps and errors and stuff. Seeing the UV unwrap tuts and simple cups and dresses or whatever tells me there's still a lot of enthusiasm for Hex2. Funny, there's more posts on Hex at Daz than Carrara and the opposite is true here. It's just a slight margin ether way, but I do find it interesting. I think a lot of the complaining still stems from really not knowing how to model well and there's just no great book out there for Hex2 saying; Do this, this and this and here's why and there's your awesome model, boom Done... It takes lots of patience and experimenting and a ton of practice and the more you do it the better you get, just like anything else.
My only problem to this day is related to seams and I hope Carrara can fill the 3D paint role if it doesn't get worked out in H2. I give Daz a break and rather than beat them up, encourage them to keep at it. Maybe they're not as fast as the French team, but those guys made the thing and knew it inside out from the beginning. I think they want to see Hexagon suceed even though they're on a new team now. After all, they made it and care for it even more then we do probably.

I hope there is an H3. I want to do one of those Elven helmets or something like that on CGSociety some day too, yaknow?

Nate Owens
20/10/2006, 19h49
Courel...

I think you are definitely right.
Hex is almost there, and that is saying a lot for such a new application - particularly in light of the dumping on/of the application by Eovia.

mon_stdnt
21/10/2006, 15h51
I do hope that DAz doesn't drop the ball on this one.:ermm: They have two great programs IMO, and if the "upcoming" patch of Hex2 is free, then I'm all for that.:p I wouldn't like (I don't think anyone would) to pay for every patch that comes out, that will definitely hurt my pocket.

As for Carrara, all I'm looking for is a good, well thought out Hair and cloth simulation intergrate in the program, cause whats the point of buying the plugins if eventually your going to upgrade the plugin with the new C6.

If it doesn't happen then Lightwave 9 if looking pretty good for me.:blush2:

medeamajic
22/10/2006, 22h57
mon_stdnt,

Hair and cloth are the two big ones that need to be added but I can think of a few others. I would like to see a few more Hexagon tools (symmetrical modleing) in Carrara 6 as well as 3-D paint. A better sky editor would be great along with a liquid editor but it might be to hard to implement a liquid editor.



manleystanley,

I can see you are getting frustrated with DAZ. I know integration with Daz products was not even on my radar let alone being high on my list. You will just have to wait and see what Daz does. Carrara 6 could be a flop like Bryce 5.5 and Bryce 6. Brcye still does not have a decent modeler or bones and skeletons. Daz has owned Bryce for well over two years. Hair, cloth, better animation previews and a few more Hexagon tools will make Carrara 6 a decent upgrade. If we only get Daz Studio and Bryce interegration for Carrara 6 it will infact be a joke of an upgrade. I think it may happen. It seems Daz cares about the Dazzers needs more than the true Eovians like us. I can not believe there is not a website for Carrara only. I hate to look at the Daz doll house like the rest of you. Daz can sell content but just don't bait us Evoians to play house for upgrades. I know it will happen. I think the Daz buy out sucks.

mon_stdnt
22/10/2006, 23h42
I can not believe there is not a website for Carrara only...

God I miss Eovia.com:crying2:

E-Z
24/10/2006, 02h29
alot of companys are not like they used to be.

its all about money,
they dont care what you think or what you say
they will throw you out in the cold then give you a glass of ice water over making a dollar.

thats why alot of people boycott apps.

Grendel
24/10/2006, 20h33
I agree with Couerl on this one, I look at the DAZ boards once and awhile and it's seems as they become more familiar with it their is less griping. Learning to model well is a large undertaking(I pick stuff up all the time) that I think some may have underestimated.

I think variety is also crucial, a person has to try things that are outside the scope of comfort to get better. Accomplishing the following: Car, realistic head/body, detailed mechanical object, cartoon character, architectural work, model with box method, with edge method, with spline method, would make a person much better. The skills and techniques for these things are very different and greatly increase the knowledge of the toolset.

As for Carrara 6 I hope it is a good upgrade and I personally do not need any poser/daz integration but I think unfortunately the majority will rule. And they really do need to move Carrara to it's own site with some style.

manleystanley
25/10/2006, 00h57
Oh, yes, I agree. I think Carrara needs a seperate forum from Daz. I'm sure there are those that will agree that the Daz forum is a fashion show. I read it more for entertainment, and post mostly to complain; I mean I am a rable rouser. :p
I will also agree that the more femiliar I get with Hex the fewer problems I'm having; although the 2.1 patch fixed quite a few problems I was having. I'm sure Daz will come out with another patch for H2, but I dought if there will be any C5 fixes till C6. :( I just hope Daz dosen't do an e-frontier and wip versions of Carrara out as new versions that are no more then fixes to the previos version. :dry: I just hope it dosen't turn into one of those "new and improved" lable on the box things.

steama
25/10/2006, 04h42
Whatever helps DAZ sell more content and Paltinum Club memberships is what you are going to get in Carrara 6. Sorry but that is whole the story.

DAZ exists to pimp content not necessarily to develop great software.

But it is all good. This is exactly what some people want. People should do what they want and enjoy it regardless of how great the tools are or not. It is all an inside job as to what an individual is trying to accomplish. If you are looking for top quality tools they are available too...elsewhere.

Stan