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Pillman
03/07/2006, 18h17
I purchased Hexagon shortly before DAZ stepped in. What's the general consensus of them as a company? Can we expect good things in the future as far as improvements and upgrades in Carrara and Hex?

medeamajic
04/07/2006, 01h36
I my self am not to fond of Daz or the Daz forums. I my self did not like the Hexagon price of $1.99 tied into the Daz Membership. Some of the Daz folks were offended that I stated I did not like it. Why would anyone be offended by my opinion? I should be able to post my opinion about Hexagon in the Daz forums with out being attacked. They are very strange over in the Daz forums to say the least. You can not have and adult conversaion with out getting banned or attacked. You can not bad mouth that Daz product with honest critism like you could in most forums.

You can try to hang out at the Daz forums but it is useless to say the least. You see a lot of Daz members who can pay for a Daz membership and buy the Daz models but when it comes time to purchase Carrara they think they should get it for $1.99. Daz folks are used to getting good deals but the Eovians don't want 3-D content and are used to getting good upgrades. Also I know several of the Daz Members have Bryce, Vue, Poser and Carrara and give their opinions about them but when truth be told some of them have not even tried the Vertex modeler of Carrara or the rigging. I think they should let the true Eovians post the pros and cons of Carrara. I think folks just repeat what others write about the software. I think many of them bought Carrara just for the simple fact it can do so much and the price was cheap yet most of the Daz mebers can get by with Daz Studio and Bryce. It is a much different scene than what we had with Eovia. A lot of the Dazzers now have Carrara and Hexagon and some of them admit they do not use either. I don't think they have the skills or mental capacity to use either. They just bought them because the price was to good to pass up. They have great programs like Hexagon and Carrara but they would rather request new clothes for Hiro and New hair for Vicki rather than try to make use of the software they purchased. Daz is like a religous cult for some. You should hang out there for a while to see for yourself.

Daz should have kept the Daz content website seperate from the Carrara and Hexagon website.

Will Carrara and Hexagon mature as well as they did under Eovia? Who knows? Only time will tell.

Pillman
04/07/2006, 03h00
Thanks for your input. Your comments reflect some of the stuff I've been picking up from posts here and over at Daz.

I'm definitely here to learn how to create, not play dollhouse!

moxstudios
04/07/2006, 03h45
medeamajic: I now what you feel, I am waiting to see whats daz plans with Hexagon and Carrara, I dont feel secure

Im a Hexagon 2 user but don't really now the future of the software and If they going to release a new update to fix the seams problems and paint tool, doesn't have undo. Well am seriously planning to buy silo lets see whats happend.

I hope you undestand

Sketchy
04/07/2006, 04h26
I bought Hex 1.21 just before the buyout. It was at the height of the name Eovia shining like a bright star. I don't really know if that's relevant anymore. You can opt to buy Silo, Modo or any of the alternatives out there and no one will care. Maybe there's really something in a name...

I'm absolutely sure Carrara 6 will rock. I'm not really sure whether people will finally credit DAZ for it.

medeamajic
04/07/2006, 05h48
I think Carrara 6 will be a good upgrade but I do not want to see Daz members get Carrara 6 for $1.99. The Carrara programmers should hang out here not in the Daz forums. The Dazzers are going to want Carrara to integrate with Daz Studio. I think that should be a free patch in the future. We need a better animation preview and dynamic hair and cloth ASAP not Daz Studio integration ASAP.

I think Eovia was adding features to Carrara and Hexagon at an exponential rate to compete with the competition. Daz does not care about the competition as you can tell from the development speed of Bryce. The Dazzers will not tap into all the features of Carrara so in that case Daz would not have to develope Carrara 7 until 2009. Will Daz slack off?

I was very upset when I heard Daz had bought Eovia. So many people switched from TS, Lightwave and C4D because they thought Eovia's Carrara 5 and Hexagon 2 would be the best solution. I hope Carrara and Hexagon does prove to be a good combination but I heard the Hexagon staff was let go.

Sketchy
04/07/2006, 08h24
Would be nice if DAZ gives a significantly better deal for us who pre-orderered Hex 2 next time without tying it up with DAZ membership. Just like what they did to complete strangers who never cared about Eovia's products. But why would they?

manleystanley
04/07/2006, 14h05
medeamajic it's not what you say, it's how you say it. You can call a dog the dirtiest names in the book, but if you say it sweetly he wont get mad. If you express a complament antagonisticly people will respond to the antaganisiam, not the complament. If you express your opinion as your opinion you get more respect and less attacks. Now with that said there are those at Daz that seem to hunt for the slightest misconseved insult to flame, and will read between the lines to find it.:dry:
As for judgeing Daz by Bryce, well that horse is long dead, and I don't think we need to beat on it's tomb stone. I think by now Daz has realized the profit that can be made with midlevel priced CG apps, I dought if they will let them fall behind, but I'm also sure they will be developed with intagration to DS/Poser in mind. The question is, is that really a bad thing?
Now take this as you will, but if I post a question at Daz I get answers, good bad, or indifferent, but I get answers. And I will have to agree that there are a lot of $ artists there, most of which are looking for plug and play solutions. You can see this by how many times the same question has been asked, I quite often just want to post a link to the 5 other times the question has been asked. :ermm:
So what does this boil down to? Yes, there are quite a few $ open and render artists at Daz, but these are the folks that keep the money coming in for Daz, as long as that money is roling in, the devs are getting paid, and working. Which means the patches, updates, and new versions of the programs we love are being made.
And just what is the problem with dicounting software? It puts it in the hands of people like me, poflok that couldn't normally aford it. If your judging software by the price, that's your problem, I judge it by how well it works. Some of the best programs I've had were free.

medeamajic this is all long dead subject matter, and even though I may agree with you on certain points, I'm sick of reading it. :hi:

medeamajic
04/07/2006, 20h23
I wish you could read acurately. I do not mind Daz selling Carrara for $1.99 to everyone but I do not like to see Carrara or Hexagon used to increase Daz memberships. There is a very big difference. I think if people read a little more acurate in the Daz forums things could have been much better. What I am saying is do not make assumptions. I do not judge software by the price. If that were the Case I would be using Maya or Max. I like the fact that Carrara is inexpensive. I am not saying you want to pick a fight but I think others may agree you read what you wanted to read and not what I wrote. That is what happens in the Daz forums very often. I should not have to word my opinions in a way to make the Dazzers happy. No one attacked me hear for my coments and no one attacks me at the other 3-D websites I visit for making honest critisism about Bryce, Daz Studio, Vue Poser etc.

If your sick of reading what I wrote do not read it. Some one asked about the dirt on Daz. I am not a big fan and I listed my reasons. I thought you were the one who recieved a few mean spirited private emails at the Daz foums. I did not get any PM. I do think some of the folks are mean spirited. Manley Stanely lets try to be honest. If Bryce 6 is not that great and people post it is 100% crap (locks up, renders slow, etc) do you or do you not agree that the moderators might delete the post that are negative towards Bryce? Is that the kind of forum you want to visit? I am only telling what my experience thus far has been like.

I do like this forum much better as do others.

manleystanley
04/07/2006, 22h44
medeamajic you should know me by now :happy: Someone had to jump up and deffend Daz, I just didn't have much to work with :shiny:

Sketchy
04/07/2006, 23h49
As long as DAZ keeps their doll business off Car Dev Team, they would be fine, I think. Like I said, C6 will rock.

Regarding Hex 2, all they need is to fix the bugs.

medeamajic
05/07/2006, 00h58
I would like to think we will see Hexagon 3,4,5 etc. I am not sure if the Hexagon staff was let go or not. I thought Thomas posted that they were let go. Hexagon may not mature as fast as it has in the past.

As far as the Daz Doll House is concerned. I know there is good money in 3-D content but like your self I wish Daz would have kept the Eovia Products and website seperate. Daz does not realize most the Eovians are not into Daz memberships. I admit my models are not the best but I have fun using Hexagon and the Vertex Modeler. I hope we see more Hexagon features in Carrara 6.

Bassettec
23/07/2006, 07h05
All, I have read your comments and have to say that I think there are pros and cons to all mergers of companies and products. I was a DAZ member before the buyout I am fairly new to the Modeling and 3-D world and I am liking the chance to get to know the programs you all apparently like a lot. I am looking forward to do some exploring into Carrara and Hexagon both to see what I can do with them. However, as an introduction to the 3-D world it was easy to step in and have some of the work created by others who have been at it for a much longer time. I don't have a lot of time to spend on Forums but it is nice to see honest opinions from everyone. I think the DAZ team will do the Hexagon and Carrara products justice in the future.

For what it is worth.

gamefun4u
27/08/2006, 19h23
Daz should have kept the Daz content website seperate from the Carrara and Hexagon website.

I do agree completely. The DAZ website is mainly full of 'hail daz'type of people and threads with a more serious nature never get answered or locked. I've once had a very genuine concern about a product I did buy and the thread got completely out of hand, not because of my question, which never got answered, but because of all kinds of alligation made to me. The only message I did post was the initial one and never replied and yet I was almost banned, because of what others did.

I'm also having serious problems with DAZ's marketing tactics, they stink. They will do about anything to get people buy their content.

Also what happened to Bryce and how it is used to push their own poser-like software is sad. Bryce was a solid application, DAZ is slowly destroying it and only using it to drag people into getting into their figures.

But for now I'm convident about the Eovia product line, since the original team is still working on it. If DAZ is going to work on it (like they did with Bryce), Carrara and Hexagon soon will be only used for promotional purposes, even more then now and the upgrades will be very expensive for just a few minor updates.

I'm having good hopes for Carrara 6, but for 7 I'm not to sure. By then DAZ may have complete grip of the Eovia team and turn Carrara into another one of their content pushing applications.

To be honest, I don't even think DAZ realizes Carrara and Hexagon's potential and I'm afraid their only thinking about how to get their content into it, like they're doing with Bryce.

medeamajic
27/08/2006, 19h54
gamefun4you,

That is how we all feel but you can not make a comment like yours in the Daz forum with out the Dazzers getting pissed off. Daz runs several website so I do not see the problem with having a site for Hexagon and Carrara only. I hate seeing Carrara take a back seat to the content for sale at the Daz site. I do not mind Daz selling content but there needs to be much more focus on Carrara and Hexagon.

Sketchy
27/08/2006, 19h58
To be honest, I don't even think DAZ realizes Carrara and Hexagon's potential and I'm afraid their only thinking about how to get their content into it, like they're doing with Bryce.That's the sad thing about the whole acquisition thing led by people who have very little interest in the dynamic nature of software development. They most likely think that once an app is done, it's done. There is little desire to push for more improvement and additional features that reflect the present times and needs of the user community. I just hope that the Car dev team will come up with innovative features years ahead of every known 3d app out there. Something that will finally stop me from looking at another app just like what the Amapi team were able to do with Hex (as far as modeling is concerned.) Otherwise, Carrara is doomed to oblivion just like Bryce.:crying2:

gamefun4u
27/08/2006, 20h15
I know you cannot make such comments at the DAZ forums, that's why I post them here.

After my incident I get a bit mad and hardly ever post at the DAZ forums or buy stuff there anymore. My comment about the product bought was very valid and in the end the issue was solved..... but I don't like to threathened with being banned if I have't done anything wrong and getting blamed for other peoples disbehaviour.

Don't like the attitude at the DAZ forums, so I do avoid them if possible and do avoid DAZ if possible also.

medeamajic
27/08/2006, 20h33
I have been banned from the Daz forums. They do not like not like negative comments even if they are true.

I think there is a chance Daz may sell Carrara and Hexagon. I think Daz bought Carrara to help push content sales and increase memberships. I think it has worked but not as good as they had hoped. There is rumor that Daz will make a site just for Carrara and Hexagon but that should have been done months ago.

Nichod
27/08/2006, 20h38
That's the sad thing about the whole acquisition thing led by people who have very little interest in the dynamic nature of software development. They most likely think that once an app is done, it's done. There is little desire to push for more improvement and additional features that reflect the present times and needs of the user community. I just hope that the Car dev team will come up with innovative features years ahead of every known 3d app out there. Something that will finally stop me from looking at another app like the Amapi team did with Hex (as far as modeling is concerned.) Otherwise, Carrara is doomed to oblivion just like Bryce.

:hi:

OK. Lets repeat the same thing I've stated over and over again. Bryce was NOT the result of Daz. Bryce has been and still likely is a mess of code that requires LOTS of optimizations and fixes. I feel that the next few updates of Bryce will have little to show as far as new features as most work is to fix and figure out the code.

And Daz has worked hard on Bryce and Daz Studio. You can't say that they do not develop software quickly. In just a few years they have intergrated a renderman compliant renderer into an application that is on par with Poser, the program being Daz Studio. Poser on the other hand has shown little improvement since its creation. That can be seen by looking at the sad advancements between version 5 and version 6. They have created a collada and FBX import/export for Daz Studio. Advanced animation features like Motion blending and soon cloth dynamics of some variety. (last two were announced at the artzone chat event)

Now, as far as Carrara and Hexagon are concerned they are in capable hands. Both are still developed by the excellent team led by Charles. I have no doubt that Hexagon will be fixed and Carrara will advance.

Nichod
27/08/2006, 20h42
I think there is a chance Daz may sell Carrara and Hexagon. I think Daz bought Carrara to help push content sales and increase memberships. I think it has worked but not as good as they had hoped. There is rumor that Daz will make a site just for Carrara and Hexagon but that should have been done months ago.

Its not a rumor. It was announced during the Chat event. Bob stated that they are programming a new shopping cart, from scratch, I believe something which takes a great deal of time to make. They stated it should be launched in 3-4 weeks. After that a new site should follow shortly after. And in November a new forum. Months ago is unrealistic. When autodesk acquired alias it took them almost 6 months to intergrate things.

That said I do think it would have been a good idea to keep eovia.com open and running as it was until the new website was complete. But I don't run the company:)

LoneGunman
28/08/2006, 03h21
:hi:

In just a few years they have intergrated a renderman compliant renderer into an application that is on par with Poser

Funny that you say that, 3Dlight is far more powerful rendering system than it's representation in DS. There is native capability in 3Dlight for rendering AO, GI and spline based Hair and Fur. What do you think why these are not implemented yet ? :)

Nichod
28/08/2006, 03h45
Funny that you say that, 3Dlight is far more powerful rendering system than it's representation in DS. There is native capability in 3Dlight for rendering AO, GI and spline based Hair and Fur. What do you think why these are not implemented yet ?

Limitation of licensing? Still in progress of being implemented? How would I know?

LoneGunman
28/08/2006, 04h01
Heh, I thought you would take a guess. Different hair props are still number 1 sold item in DAZ store. My opinion is they are not rushing it, cuz milking that old cow called mesh/alpha transparecy hair still makes them a lot of money. I'm sure someone is gonna make DS plugin for it one day and charge for it ($100 maybe) :shiny: