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bwtr
10/04/2006, 04h55
I am becoming increasingly frustrated with the misuse of words, and the different use of descriptions/ names both within an Eovia app or between Eovia apps.
I have had highly qualified programmers looking at some of the descriptions and they have no idea of the meaning.
That you can not find either a Tree or Plant maker in the Help of Carrara is astonishing!
Todays "gripe" is that in one app an item is called a "point" and in another a "vertex" ---and "vertex IS the proper name in English I suggest.
I think all the people at Eovia do a great job but suggest they urgently need an accomplished nomenclature controller.
(how some things work--how you use them-- in one way in one app and differently in another is also worth looking at.)

Senyac
10/04/2006, 06h28
well you must be using a different help file for carrara than me?
If i search for tree or plant i get alot of search results ;)
Page 92 to 102 covers trees.

bwtr
10/04/2006, 06h46
You prove my point I suggest. To find the proper place fot the Tree/Plant "maker" you will find it under the heading "Creating Trees"!! (On the Carrara main working desk top, The dropdown lists a "Plant" and the Second row access to quick entry shows it a tree!)

Senyac
10/04/2006, 07h17
well on my carrara 5.1 pro the dropdown menu states plant and the icons states plant as well :)
But I think you are splitting hairs here , some programs/people call vertexs , points , control points or CPs and vertexs , its all the same thing ,
The most important thing IMO is that the program works and bugs are fixed and eovia have been great at that , if there is some naming errors for trees or plants or vertex and pionts , chamfer or fillet I dont care as long as they work :)
Id rather Eovia spend time fixing bugs and adding improvements than chasing down little naming mistakes that dont affect the use of the program .

bwtr
10/04/2006, 07h35
Again I think my point is being lost. I suggest a great number of people entering the 3D world of Eovias for the first time are, rightly, confused. As one becomes more aware, the difference of namenclature between different companies is frightening to the beginner. That these inconsictencies also apply within one company I suggets is not really good. I am not complaining about Eovia as a total because I love them to bits, but I cry for all those, like me, who have to continually rush away to a dictionary--and are still left confused!

Most National and International companies have an internal Dictionary/Thesaurus in which they specify "The Word" to be used in any company document for specific descriptions.

jval
10/04/2006, 07h56
While I basically agree I doubt that we will soon see software publishers collectively agree to a single set of terms. But you would think that a company could at least agree with itself. Like Senyac, I don't care whether they call a tool chamfer or fillet. But when they call it chamfer in the documentation and fillet within the program (or maybe it's the other way around- I forget...) we have some serious potential for completely unnecessary confusion. Software publishers often complain that their users don't read the manuals. Maybe if users were given decent manuals they would.

All in all it's like going on a first date- you don't have a clue what the other is thinking so you spend most of your time guessing... LOL!

- Jack

ps
I'm not singling out Eovia- they are no worse or better than anyone else in this regard.

bwtr
10/04/2006, 08h08
I agree with that ps--but we need to get things moving in the right direction.

I live in South Australia and I go to the adjoining state of Victoria and they don't know what a Schooner or Butcher of beer is!! Nomenclature IS A VERY SERIOUS THING!!!!

Senyac
10/04/2006, 08h15
we must remember that eovia is both US and Europe company and so this might be causing these small mistakes ,
Most newbies dont take the time to read the manual and using a dictionary is not always helpfull because its not 3d orientated but thats why the manual has a glossary but how many newbies read that far lol

are the same people who write the progam the same that write the manuals ?
I probberly not , so you see these small errors can easilly be over looked :)
I for one am happy with eovia programs and manuals , I just hope the next Carrara manual is simular to Hexes manual with video examples :)
I learnt faster with hexes videos in the manual that I did reading the Carrara manual :)

Senyac
10/04/2006, 08h22
LOL so bwtr your a Aussie :)
me too im in Tasmania
I went to Victoria and went to a fish and chip shop and brought scallops and they gave me potato cakes lol :)
At least us Tassies know what a schooner is :)

bwtr
10/04/2006, 08h24
Cheers!

It seems they are losing the idea of how to play Aussie Rules also???!!!

tonytrout
10/04/2006, 08h42
Is that because they couldnt spell rugby?

bwtr
10/04/2006, 08h46
Aussie Rules is the football game where you combine all the worst features of all the ball games , employ bad umpires, and hire --well--short tempered, strong, fistycuff type people to play. Obviously the Nations favourite sport!

tonytrout
10/04/2006, 08h50
Yes Ive been to the MCG to watch a semifinal years ago when I was living in Melbourne so I know the national fervour over the game. Its the same here with rugby, and they call it a gentlemans sport LOL

bwtr
10/04/2006, 09h05
But they get thier NOMENCLATURE right!!!

tonytrout
10/04/2006, 09h18
Its nice to know there are a couple of Aussies at least over the ditch, sometimes think I must be the only Kiwi using Carrara and Hex out here on the Edge

cheers

bwtr
10/04/2006, 09h27
I think this thread is proving a point!

Maybe those on the other side of the equator use a different dictionary too?

ps. Still can not grasp the way NZs pronounce words. Even WORSE than Victorians!!!

bwtr
10/04/2006, 09h39
A note for Thomas. In this part of the world I live in we can be very "rude" to each other and think it's all in good fun--well mostly!

tonytrout
10/04/2006, 09h58
All those on the other side of the equator maybe think they are standing on top of the world, but there are so many of them I am surprised they dont fall off lol

bwtr
10/04/2006, 10h04
And, to add to the confusions for Thomas? South Australians are known as "crow eaters" and we are renowned for flying around in ever diminishing circles ending up------in a dark place!

jval
10/04/2006, 15h37
...thats why the manual has a glossary but how many newbies read that far.

This point would have been much stronger if either "chamfer" or "fillet" were actually included. An incomplete glossary is not much better than no glossary at all.

By the way, the reason I am going on about "fillet" and "chamfer" confusion is that someone on this forum recently asked for help on this very matter. By the time I saw and answered his post the next day he had already figured it out. But how much time was wasted and frustration endured before that?

If this happens too often the user is likely to give up. Later, if the program is mentioned on one of the forums, he then proceeds to tell everybody that this otherwise perfectly fine software is a piece of garbage or too difficult to understand. Sounds a lot like Amapi, doesn't it?

- Jack

jval
10/04/2006, 15h52
Sheesh... I just noticed I'm a "Polyline" and never even got a kiss first!

Oh well, I guess it's not as bad as poor bwtr. He's being targeted by morphs and I'll bet they've never even been formally introduced to each other.

- Jack

Thomas
10/04/2006, 16h57
A note for Thomas. In this part of the world I live in we can be very "rude" to each other and think it's all in good fun--well mostly!
bwtr: no problems, I'm not in charge of the Carrara manual, but Hexagon manual :)
BTW, we know that we need to improve both manuals (Hexagon AND Carrara) but doing a manual isn't an easy task. Trying to be coherent in a document of 300-500 pages is not easy, and as you can imagine, it's not only one personn which works on a manual, but a lot, directly or indirectly!

I'm currently working on the Hexagon 2 manual (I do a small pause to read my forums posts :) and I'm always looking to other parts of the forums, to see if the style of what I write is the same of what I wrote several month ago.
After than, two/three other Eovia memeber are reading it, correct it is needed, and then, go to translation, which most of time have questions, then, need some edits, etc..

That's why you can imagine, that doing a good manual without any errors, even with a dedicated techwriter is impossible.. but we try!

bwtr
11/04/2006, 03h20
Thanks Thomas, I think you got the message that we think the Eovia team is very good and that we are highlighting the strong need for your own internal "Naming Nomenclature" book to avoid,the obvious,usage of different words by all these various people working on different things.
By now, Eovia should be mature enough to ensure that these problems are rectified.