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are
20/12/2005, 23h40
Not wanting to ruffle any feathers - a couple of questions ..

Is it ok to comment on pictures to try to suggest ways to improve them - or does the artist need to ask for this eg. "any comments welcome" ?

Is it bad form to comment on a picture with only "Nice" or "very good" - is it better to just use the star rating system ?

The star rating system - is it a case of 5 stars if it is perfect nothing could be better and 4 for just very good but you could of done this or this to make it better ?

Is it ok to ask on how something is done/made or to even ask for materials/*.car files, etc ?

and finally - are you sure that :whatever: is the smilie for "Whatever" - as I thought it was for something else ?:)

Thanks

bwtr
20/12/2005, 23h50
I have spent years with an Art Society. Almost every year we try to run "Critique" nights------no one turns up! I like constructive criticism but few do I think. I always ask for stuff I think its a compliment to do so.

steama
21/12/2005, 00h03
I think it is an open issue. If you post your image it is pretty much open for comment in whatever form as long as it does not violate any forum rules.

Of course good manners are always appreciated by most people. Other than that I just try to have a good constructive time on the forum.

http://www.eovia3d.net/forumdisplay.php?f=138

fabster
21/12/2005, 00h33
Are,
I can't really say for the english part of the forum, as I usually stick to the french part, but basically, I've sort of learnt to know people there, and whether they would accept easily or not criticisms...
I posted some work (not much, but mainly because 3D is a hobby for me, and I have too much work...). I got criticisms, but usually very constructive and encouraging. I learnt a lot from these comments.
As Steama said, good manners is always the best, but that forum is a tool for all of us to learn and progress, so you don't need to associate good manners with excessive buttock licking (if you pardon me the use of such word... lol ).

Just do your best to have a good time here, to learn and share knowledge, that's the most important thing!

Fabien

Thomas
21/12/2005, 12h37
I didn't wrote down any rules about that. In my opinion, the best is to crticize as best as possible, to help the autor of the model/image to improve his/her creation and skills.
By the way, the autor, by posting, have to accept these criticizes :)

Sarissi
22/12/2005, 06h16
There is nothing like having your work critiqued by an Art Teacher who got his Masters of Fine Arts degree in Paris. He praised where it was due. However, he would verbally rip it to shreds if it deserved that, in front of the entire class. I had the good fortune to be in his art classes in high school (USA), which were more like what you would expect in Art School or College/University in those days.

On the internet, I think any critiques should be limited to technical, where errors are mentioned, and ways to fix them.

Thomas, one thing that should never be done, is bashing a render based on the subject matter.

Thomas
22/12/2005, 09h00
Sarissi: I can't completly agree about the first part of your message. Having a master in Fine art doesn't mean that you can be a good teatcher. It means that you have some skills (good ones), but most of the time, of a specific part of arts (painiting, scultping, etc..) and gave you a strong art "culture" (damn, I'm sure it is not the good english word..).
I have spent some years in Fine Arts (but in Normandy) and I thought that a lot of teatchers I had weren't fantastic at all...
My best teatcher was an autodidact as mostof the 3D users all other the web.. as a lot of french guy I know here and as me.

When I post something, then, it's to show my stuff and then, I expect any kind of criticizes as any artist which expose his arts on a gallery in the "real world". Visitors can be professionals, newbies or have varisous knowleges in art but you sure they will have their opinion even if they don't agree with your way of "thnking" about your creations. If you don't want feedback, then, don't expose your stuff!

That's it which make progress someone, even if criticizes are not "Great" "ansowne"... I prefer having bad feedback, but with justification, which will point out potential problem, and not always technical ones.

It's something I love on forums like CGTalk, on the big contests they do, where you have to show your progress and everybody, from all skills, help you progress by telling you what is wrong on your creation. It's something which happen too on the french part of the forum, and as you can see, the skills are pretty goods and some users have made fulgurous improvments of their skills (as myself)

It's only my opinion on that, but as a past 3D teatcher, 3D users for 12 years now, autodidact, having lose 1 year in a 3D school, meet a lot of 3D users, having a sister which work as an assistant of the Curator of the LACMA in Los Angeles and who gave 4 years of teatching the Louvres school in Paris, then, I think I can gave my opinion ;)

I only hope I wrote what I mean... I need to go back to english school :)


Thomas, one thing that should never be done, is bashing a render based on the subject matter.
I don't understand the second part of the sentance..

bwtr
22/12/2005, 10h55
Thomas I think it means you should judge something on it's artisticality not on it's "beauty"! You can appreciate a work for it's art or craft--even if you don't like it!

Ringo Monfort
22/12/2005, 14h51
The critiques have been very useful for me in creating better images. We do the same in my art class. For every project we have to post it so that the entire class can see it not just the professor. The entire class has to give feedback on every project posted. It is very usefull in my opinion.

While we know that everyone welcomes the positive comments it is also good to welcome the suggestions on how to improve the images. This way next time around you do it better. Nothing wrong with this.

Like Thomas said once you post your image people are going to have opinions about it one way or the other. I also like CGtalk for that reason.

But also have fun here at the forum. :-)

JuST
22/12/2005, 16h07
Absolutely true! If someone puts his work online, he has to be ready to get some ctitical comments and tipps how to improve. This is the reason, why I (as an hobbyist) visit this forum so often. Without all the tipps and all those people teaching each other things, I would have problems to improve my skills.
I also like this Forum because of the fact that the members are of great varity... we have those really good 3d-artists, we have beginners and we also have a lot of people in between...
:) That was a point I always disliked in those "longer existing" forums... there seemed to be only the professionals... So I always felt somehow lost...

Sarissi
22/12/2005, 17h43
My Art Teacher was Very Good. This was back in 1972-1974. France has some of the finest Traditional art schools around, and a fine history in Fine Arts. Teaching is a special talent, and he had it in good measure.

Subject matter examples: Science Fiction, Religion (any), Fantasy, Still Life, Landscape, and so forth.

Style Examples: Realistic, Surrealistic, Cubism, and so forth.

Sarissi
22/12/2005, 17h53
The problem with many art teachers in high schools, here in the USA, is that they know very little when it comes to traditional art. As a result, these classes are considered to be 'easy credits'. Not with my art teacher.

Oh, bashing is basically saying it is no good, merely due to it being Science Fiction or whatever.